EFI for 78 CJ, Howell, 4.0, or V8?

[franked]

Hi everyone, I went on the Rubicon trail 2 weeks ago, I made it through. I learned a few things about my jeep that weekend, it's pretty tough, it could use a little more power, 33s are a little on the small side for the Rubicon, and I need to now make a new spare tire holder/bumper. And even though I didn't get stuck on the trail, I want a winch, I have bought one since, but still need to install it.

I learned that my jeep needs fuel injection or a new carb. We stalled out in the middle of the trail the first day stopping traffic for 15 minutes, OK, so it was about 3 rigs both ways, but it was embarrassing. First an inline filter clogged up right before the fuel pump, then the carb would not idle and did it again we were dead on the trail for about 15-20 minutes 3 times. We told the guys we were riding with to go on ahead, and camped out on our own, after we finally got it moved out of the way. I would rather go fuel injection for the mileage and lack of tuning required at differing altitudes. We were from 4500 to 7300 feet that weekend with driving out, and the jeep ran pretty crappy in various ways the whole time.

I have talked to a few guys about it, and a lot of people recommend the Howell kit. One guy says" I am a V8 guy,I'd go with a 350 Chevy truck engine, TBI" I have been reading a bit and it seems that putting a 4.0 head on my engine would increase the horsepower by 25-30%. I am in California, have to get it smog inspected to keep it registered, My Jeep does NOT have a Catalytic converter, which I would have to add if I changed engines.
My head also needs valve seals, smoky on start up.

My jeep has Dana44s front and rear, from a scout, they made it through the Rubicon, no problem, but that is with my stock 4.2(not too much power), and 4.10 gears, rear locker, and front LSD.
So here are the choices,

My 4.2, 258 with howell fuel injection, Easiest, about 1200.00

My 4.2 with Howell FI, A new 4.0 head 2nd easiest, about 16-1700.00

A used 4.0 from a cherokee, with 4spd(don't know how much work this would be) It runs, for 500.00 plus whatever I need to adapt it to my jeep

A Chevy 305-350 Fuel injected engine.this is the most work, but the most power. Not sure of the cost, found a 350 running in a Caprice for 750.00, but it is automatic, and I would have to adapt or get new trans/clutch linkage etc.
I can get it smogged and registered if I change the engine, but it has to be a newer engine, and I have to have whatever equipment that engine came with, IE a CAT, etc.

CAN ANYONE GIVE ME SOME THOUGHTS, OR STORIES ABOUT ANY OF THESE?
thanks, Frank

 

[franked]

I can't believe that no one responds and helps out at all on this huge Jeep forum, I get more out of the local Bronco guys, Sigh.....

 

[rielly]

Well Frank I'll give you my 2 cents. I myself am starting to think about what to do with my 84 CJ7 with 4.2. I think these are great motors actually. Getting the most out of them depends on gearing, fuel, and condition though. My first CJ7 had a 258 in great shape. I put a weber on it and 4:56 since it was up on 35's and couldn't believe the torque/ power it had. Next one had a weber too but it sucked and the only thing I can think is that motor had been worn down over the years. That said I think it really depends on the condition of your 258. I'd run compression checks to try and gauge just how gooda shape its in. If it's perfect I'd opt for the 4.0 head and the howell or a Weber... or a Motorcraft 1.08. I really don't know anything about the head swap but have heard it's good. For now on my latest Jeep I'm trying the motorcraft carb while I lift and gear it. I'd like to hear how you make out since it only be a matter of time before I want to improve my power too.

How did your axle swap go by the way? I'd love to put a Dana 44 up front in my CJ. Did you shorten the rears? I don't really want my tires sticking out more than they do already. If you have pics can you send me one to riellys@hotmail.com

thanks,
Tom

 

[franked]

Nice to see someone responded, I do have a couple pics, sadly the camera that I took all the original pictures with died. I do have the tires sticking out about 4 inches front and rear, but the rear are 33X15.5 swampers, on 10" wheels. The fronts that size were barely rubbing on the tie-rod end, and they were a little bald, so I left my fronts as they were. one pic is before everything, one is after the initial axle swap, and the others are after the Good fabricator had his hands on it for a week, the rack on top of the cage is removable, part of the fab work, the cage too. He also re-worked the front end a LOT! more lift, moved the axle forward 2 inches, got the caster right by cutting welds and rolling the inner knuckles back, 7degrees where I had -3 degrees. check it out. Frank

 

[franked]

I didn't think I'd like the tires sticking out, but I do, and it takes side hill stuff better. Very stable. The front tie-rod is all custom 1-ton rod ends, and 1 3/4 ton rod end, on the drag link. He(the fabricator) also did the 4inch angle iron rails on the side of the body, I rode them a couple times during the Rubicon run.
the guy who did this is named Phil, his place is Sillyfab in Sacramento, CA. He makes some really cool stuff.

 

[franked]

MySpace.com - Sillyfabservice® - 27 - Male - Sacramento, California - www.myspace.com/sillyfabservice

 

[rielly]

Looks good Frank. I'd love to do the dana 44's too but they definitely stick out. Think I may keep my AMC 20 weld the tubes and truss it and shorten a wagoneer 44. Thanks for posting the pics

tom

 

[Pumpman]

Frank,

We accidentally did what you are thinking about doing. A year ago, my wife was given a 86 CJ7, which promptly threw a rod. I purchased a remanufactured motor from a guy I had worked with on another vehicle, but he sent a 92 4.0 instead of the 4.2 we asked for. Anyway, he refused to do anything about it, and after I reversed my charges on the credit card, we decided to just try to convert the CJ.

I went to the junkyard and pulled everything I could off a 92 Cherokee - intake manifold, exhaust manifold, distributor, alternator, wiring harness, computer, etc. The two things I couldn't duplicate with used parts were the fuel pump and the crankshaft position sensor. The fuel pump we found is an external pump designed for race cars. I paid about $150 from a local auto parts store. Make sure that the pump will generate a minimum of 30 - 40 psi pressure or else it won't run correctly. That is why it cost so much.

The CPS cost about $250 as an aftermarket item from 4WParts. We have a local store that helped me to find it, but they are on the web. This sensor replaces the standard harmonic balancer with one that has notches on it and it then has a bracket that bolts on to the oil pan to hold the sensor in place. The timing had to be adjusted slightly, but it works just fine.

I still have a few idling bugs to work out. One problem I've had is that because of the wild and wooly harnesses competing under the hood, I can't just hook the engine up to a computer to diagnose problems. I'm learning a lot about the 4.0 L in the process. If you aren't afraid of a little hard work, and diagnosing problems the old fashioned way, I think you will like the 4.0. I do know that our gas mileage is up about 20% and that the fuel injection runs 100 times better than I was ever able to get the 4.2 to run.

Good luck.

Joe

 

[franked]

I decided to get the Howell fuel injection, I am going to put that on first, simple. get it running, then later in the game I will get the 4.0head, and a cam, and a header. I will post about it as it goes. Thanks for a ll the replies.

 

[ursman]

I decided to get the Howell fuel injection, I am going to put that on first, simple. get it running, then later in the game I will get the 4.0head, and a cam, and a header. I will post about it as it goes. Thanks for a ll the replies.

If'n you need any help on the Howell, I just got done doing my '89 YJ w/ a 4.2L. It was pretty straight forward. Should take you roughly 3 evenings or there about.

 

[franked]

thanks for the offer of assistance, I just hope the stuff gets here soon, so I can drool over it and probably be too busy to put it on anyway. LOL

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Have you considered running the 4.2L on propane? I've seen it work well on AMC v8's.

 

[Collin the Hen]

Now that you mention that, Bounty, here's a site that got me interested Propane Conversion Kits Seems pretty reasonable.

 

[franked]

Well, I can think of 3 reasons right away that I will not be going with propane, even if it is a little cheaper, and sounds easier to set up.
1) I live in California and this thing has to be smog legal,(not for pollution controlled vehicles)
2) I already paid for the Howell kit on my credit card
3) I drove a propane forklift years ago, they stink!!
propane looks cool, never run out of gas to your engine, whatever angle.

 

[DRAGON]

Go v-8, my swap was a lot of work, i got it from a 96 donor truck and used the computer from same vehicle,the wireing was from painless wireing with made it tons easier! Besides you dont want to keep saying to yourself-i could of had a v-8!

 

[franked]

too late, I decided to go with the howell FI, it came UPS yesterday. I wanted less work to get going, and hoping for good mileage, v8 may be as good mileage, but getting a stick shift v8, computer etc would have been a pain in the butt, I do not want to go to an automatic. I need to get this thing done and back on the road ASAP, and not put out another 3,000.00 in someone else's work. I have other projects that will be killing all my spare time. I may have preferred a V8, but the time involved..... I figure I can have the Howell going in a weekend, as in THIS weekend, and do a head/header swap in another month or two. I hope to be on a trail next weekend. possibly this sunday. Thanks for the input, how much time did your swap take?

 

[firemanharry]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, haven't had much time to peruse the Jeepz lately. I put a throttle body 350 in my 83 because I WANTED the V8 sound. I can't say I've been able to do any more with my V8 than any one else can do with a 6 (except break more stuff). I'm sure you'll be more than satisfied with the choice you've made.

 

[franked]

I probably would have really enjoyed a chevy V8, I have 3 vehicles with them now, It would make maintenance that much easier, but the work to convert was a big hurdle for me. I have many other projects that I don't have enough time for as it is. One thing that slowed me down on the V8 swap too, is that with California's financial situation, I have heard that the referee smog folks, who work for the state, are laid off right now, so you can't get an inspection with an engine swap at the moment. I wouldn't need one for a while, but still.
I just need to spend the next day getting my garage straight so I can find all the tools I need to do this job. I can't just jump in, I have just moved in in the last month or so and everything is a mess. Wish me luck!! I intend to do this job Friday. Hopefully I can be driving it this weekend.

 

[franked]

Ive had the EFI going for a while now, works great, the idle is a little higher than I like, but it runs great, I could definitely use more power though. I need to get the 4.0 head and convert it, what intake/exhaust do I use, so I can still have EGR for emmisions?

 

[fullhouse]

I think what you have now is enough!and anyway you said its doing good.