Suspension setup ?'s

[GaryMB]

I think that I'll be going with a rubicon express 4.5" extreme duty suspension lift. When I install this new lift, I will be installing scout II dana 44's and will be outboarding the springs, and so I might as well do a shackle reversal at the same time. Also, to gain more droop, I'm contemplating the use of revolver shackles. Does this sound like a good combo, where the re springs, shackle reversal, and revolver shackles would all work together well?

 

[redrooster]

I would talk to quite a few people who actually run Scout 44's before making the investment. I think you are on the right track with the suspension, assuming that you meant the revolvers were going on the rear. You don't want them on the front. One other thing is that since you are going outboard and reversal, you may want to use YJ springs all the way around. They are the same width front and rear as your current rear springs. They will be stronger on the front and less prone to bending and settling. They are a good upgrade especially since you will be fabbing anyway. Blue Torch fab has a full on kit with a bumper included if you don't feel like fabbing it yourself. www.bluetorchfab.com
The scout axles are ok, but I wouldn't push them beyond a 36" tire. The problems noted on Scout 44's are the thin material on the rear axle tube and the camber(???) on the front axle. The rear axle tube is prone to bending especially if you bounce it a lot. The front axle for a scout is made to have the pinion set at zero degrees (parallel to the ground). It makes the tires try to steer into the ground when you put it on a Jeep. I don't know how they managed this in the scouts but you need to cut and turn the knuckles on a Jeep to get it right.
If you want similar strength and width, you may want to investigate getting Wagoneer D44's. The only down side is that you will have to get 6 lug wheels. I would even consider using a Ford 9" rear from a Bronco and seeing if you can convert a Wagoneer 44 to 5 lug.
Just some thought for you.

 

[TwistedCU]

RE: I

The RE kit he's looking at uses 2.5" springs like the YJ.

 

[GaryMB]

RE: I

I'll be getting a mig welder and either a bench cutoff saw or acetylene torch in a couple days. I have a buddy who can show me how to weld, so after some practice I should be able to tackle some fabrication work. The BTF kit seems nice, but if it would save me a couple hundred $ I wouldn't mind making my own setup, maybe even one based off the btf kit. If the yj springs are the same length and the center pins are in the same place and everything, I'll just get the yj kit. However, I'll be having some driveline work done when I install my new transmission and if it won't cost too much more, might get a cv driveshaft, and probably wouldn't need the whole re kit since i already have extended brake lines and a drop pitman arm. If I could I would like to retain the cj hub bolt pattern, but if I go with 35's I guess I would need new rims anyway unless 35's will be alright on 15x8 wheels. Would it be possible to reinforce the rear scout d44 axle housing? The local pick n pull has a wagoneer that I could the axles off of...how easy would the wagoneer axle install be compared to the scout axle install?

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

The Waggy D44 fronts are common, but the 44 rears aren't. They're out there but you'll find the HDAMC20 under a lot more. Consider a rear 44 from an early 90's Isuzu, it has disc brakes and the same 6-lug wheel pattern as the Waggy D44.

If you want flex and a smooth ride, use YJ springs in a SOA setup with or without the revolvers. The SOA will ride and flex a lot better than 4.5" springs.

 

[GaryMB]

RE: need help

I had been contemplating the soa with yj springs, but am concerned about spring wrap with all the torque I will have from my stroker, along with the durability of the flat springs when they go into negative arch. The flex, smooth ride, and price of the soa is appealing, but the stock springs just seem too stock to handle this modded of a vehicle. Let me know if these issues aren't that big of a deal, though, because if they aren't I would definately give soa a second thought.

 

[GaryMB]

Here are some thoughts I've been having. I bet I could find an isuzu rear end at pick n pull, as well as a wagoneer narrow trac front end. They just about have the same width, would have disc brakes all around, I would get the stronger isuzu rear housing, and would not have the pinion problems of the scout II front axle. As for the springs, the jeep will be rather heavy with 35" tires, d44's, tire/gas can carrier, possible winch, possible utility trailer, etc., and will have an abundance of torque capable of destroying stock yj springs in a soa setup. Traction bars would defeat the purpose of soa by limiting wheel travel unless I get that expensive one from sam's offroad, which is expensive. What would happen if I built my own military wrapped stock yj springs using main leafs from an extra set of yj springs, and threw in an extra leaf lower down? Would this bring spring wrap and spring weakness back into par with an re sua setup? or would it also reduce the flex of the yj springs so that they don't flex much better than lift springs? Basically I see my jeep as lacking in tire size and suspension articulation, not lift height...so the less lift height the better as it will make me less top-heavy. Also, the jeep is not so much a rock crawler as it is a general-purpose trail rig...just food for thought.

 

[GaryMB]

who does that?

Oh and what gearing would be good for 35's? I don't want to be geared too tall as I'm already suffering from bad gas mileage and a poor crawl ratio, but still want to be able to cruise on the highway at 75-80mph just fine (the transmission is a 5spd)...oh yeah, I'll probably want suspension and steering that won't have me bouncing all over the place at that speed (if it's possible with a cj with 35's).

 

[redrooster]

Re: RE: cam lifter and spring question...

Your stroker will not be too much torque on YJ springs. I have seen many a Jeep running YJ springs and V-8's and even a few with Rockwells. The springs do fine. Traction bars are mandatory with any SOA, it's really the style that will depend on how much flex limitations you have. If you use a drag race style ladder bar then you will limit travel because you capture the axle on top and bottom and it will bind as it droops. The one that Sam's Offroad has is similar to a ladder bar but has a shackle at the top for a pivot point to allow flex.
I use two traction bars (one on each side) that are mounted on the lower side of the axle then go up to the frame. They only capture the axle at the lower point, which is all that is needed if you use strong material. I am using 1-1/2" DOM with 3/4" chromoly heim joints at each end. The heims allow arc-ing up, down and in as the axle travels. There are no limitations to flex when you do them in this fashion and are stronger than the frame itself (don't ask me how I know).
My suggestion is that if you are serious about doing an SOA then consider calling Off Road Connection in Fultondale, AL and get a set of their YJ 2.5" lift springs. They are designed to be used in SOA and will not fail you. I have had them for 2 years with great luck. They have 9 thin leaf packs per spring and are a military wrap style. When I bought them they were $98 each. I run Rancho RS9000 (9012)shocks with the springs and have an off road ride that rivals a Caddy. The 9012's have 12" of travel.
Oh yeah, go with a 4.10 or 4.56. You may get lucky on the Isuzu rear.

 

[Junkpile]

You have valid concerns with the short SOA. I'll leave it at that.

Consider a set of buggy springs (or a 3/4 elliptical setup) instead of the revolvers.

I don't see any real problem with keeping the shackle where it is. Just like almost every other subject that comes up, there are pros and cons to both sides of this issue.

With an overdrive and 35s, I'd run 4.56 or 4.88. Without the overdrive, I'd stick to 4.11s and gear down the Tcase for slower crawling ability if needed.

Avalanche engineering(are they now Poison Spider or BTF?) started the whole full-width kit thing, and there are a couple of bigger companies that make them and tons of little guys like me that can build them for you......but it's fairly easy to do if you have the fab equipment. All of the common fullsize axles will bolt in after you get the front outboarded. The Dodge is a little off, but it will bolt in on the same centers as the others. After you do the Scout II or SJ D44 front swap, switching to 3/4 or 1 ton axles later on is easy. You could go SUA with a nice 4" kit now and then use those same springs later on with heavier axles in a SOA setup for 39"+ tires.